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 Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers

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Disgustang
roguestatus
bigbird94
STiedVR4Guy
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Tusk
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240sxguy
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 10:24 am

My car hasn't ever really hooked up well. Neither from a roll or dig. My street tires are 265/40/17 dunlops and I also have a pair of 255 ET street radials on different rims. I am seeing you guys doing some nice launches and moving out well on a street tire. I really don't have much luck. My car is obviously IRS. I run a correct factory 240sx alignment even with the car lowered. Suspension is Tein flex coilovers, which have the softest spring rates of any brand I could find. Rear dampers are set to half way stiff, I could try them at soft.

What boggles my mind, is the car won't hook up from a roll either. Should I be seeing a lot of squat from a roll? Or does it come down to tire choice completely? My ET streets also spin from a roll unless they are pretty hot. Obviously not nearly as bad as the dunlops. I haven't tried running really low pressure in the ET's though. They are also a few years old so they may be getting hard.

I know I suck at launching from a dig. I am seriously considering antilag or a 2 step to get me out of the hole. This motor just doesn't make lots of low end grunt at all. I am hoping it will also improve with me putting the stock flywheel back and removing the 8lb one that is on there.

So you guys that are hooking well, any tips or tricks? Anything I may be obviously overlooking?

Thanks!

Evan
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mr.johnson
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 10:35 am

i fail at hooking up but new bushings, and good spring/shock program. i run my et's at 10 psi.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 11:35 am

I have all aftermarket rear links and subframe collars. Everything is tight back there. I know I haven't tried that low of a pressure.. maybe that's the key here.

Thanks!

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HoosierDaddy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 11:42 am

How much power are you making.? It's fine if you prefer not to answer .


Also some times I've heard sway bars can influence it . They can be too stiff and you won't get the weight transfer needed. Excuse if I'm wrong though
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 12:25 pm

Honestly dude, I just don't know. I won't theorize either, since it seems whenever I do that I am way off and look like a dumbass. It's well above 300wheel I am positive of.

Swaybar is an interesting thought, I have a factory rear bar on my car. I could unbolt the links when I swapped to my DR's fairly easily.

Evan
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HoosierDaddy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 12:36 pm

I could be wrong.

I was also guessing that you had a aftermarket thicker one ...


How far is the car lowered?


I'm sure others will chime in
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 12:38 pm

Honestly not sure how low it is compared to stock. It's been so long I can't remember. I want to say a couple inches.
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Tusk
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 1:14 pm

I'm in for knowledge.

It seems that the IRS goat folks use a stiffer rear setup. When you launch with an IRS the alignment gets screwed up with too much camber (?). Getto as it is, drag bags are VERY popular in my realm.

I wouldn't think ride hight would play that big a part with a good coil over setup that isn't maxed out. I always thought it was the front sway bar that was disconected for dragging.

From a roll where do you hook at? I feel you pain and I'm in the same boat. I haven't really tried out my new tires yet in the warmer weather, but my A4 1st gear was usless before... dig or roll.

***I don't know squat about this BTW Smile
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 1:17 pm

Car feels like the rear is floating all the way to the top of 3rd. 80mph or so?

2nd from a roll is just a burnout.. regardless of speed. Logan can attest to this.

This is on street tires btw. My clutch started slipping when I bolted the ET's on.

That does make sense, but my car doesn't squat too much. Seems like there is no weight transfer going on.
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2jz-U-Ltr
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 1:36 pm

I read a really good write up on traction for RWD IRS turbo six cars on the supra forums a couple of months ago. I'll see if I can find it when I get home.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 1:37 pm

That would be fantastic. Thanks Peter.
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STiedVR4Guy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 1:59 pm

Aren't coilovers just rewardedly stiff at even the lowest settings?

I rode in an STi with coilovers and that thing had NO give whatsoever. I'm not an expert but what I understand from the pro's on this site it needs to squat some in order to really hook up.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 2:03 pm

Spring rate has everything to do with how stiff they are. Granted they aren't as soft as a drop spring and shock combo, but they aren't bad at all ride quality wise.
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bigbird94
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 2:50 pm

Front sway bars are often removed to help weight transfer to the rear quicker. I would get a good set of et streets on low pressure first though
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roguestatus
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 3:00 pm

Aren't sway bars typically associated with weight transfer laterally?

Maybe the added weight of the RB is offsetting the cars balance too much?



I guess this is why it is such a popular drift car.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 3:01 pm

Well, as evidenced by the SR20 guys, they don't hook with a 4 banger either! lol
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roguestatus
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 3:04 pm

240sxguy wrote:
Well, as evidenced by the SR20 guys, they don't hook with a 4 banger either! lol

Lol
Just read this:
Quote :

-Yes, it is more weight, around 150lbs more for a rb25 swap. the weight isnt important tho, its the weight shift. it really depends on engine/transmission and how you mount it (i.e. crossmember or aftermarket mounts), but realistically your looking at 2-3% overall weight shift. if you look at the numbers in a 3000lb car thats only a 60-90lb shift forward. just to put that in perspective, 12 gallons of gas weighs roughly 100lbs so there is more of a shift between a full and empty tank, than a RB swap. IT DOES NOT DESTROY THE WEIGHT BALANCE OF THE CAR
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Disgustang
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 4:14 pm

Also it is very important to have the proper front suspension. Something loose with lots of travel.... I will try to write more later Im not typing this all out on my phone
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 4:16 pm

I can soften up the front if that's going to help. I don't have a ton of travel and am not sure how I would end up with more. I assume I need more available "droop" so the nose can lift up.
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XSFTLBS
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 7:14 pm

Steve is right. If I remember right, with the front loose, it transfers weight better to the rear. We used to disconnect front sway bars to accomplish this.
Your ET streets should hook decent if you heat them first, but as you found its pretty much useless from a roll. A 2 step couldn't hurt, but maybe its time to get a bit wider tire under there. How wide can you go?
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Disgustang
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 7:16 pm

your limited by your suspension...... You need tall soft springs that store lots of energy shocks that have good long travel bushings that move freely. What spring rate do you have on the front? front sway bar removed. rear can stay in. you want as much side wall as you can get what size rim and tire combo you got? on the rear suspension there is a lot of difference between IRS and others....... Like on my Vette and nova you need stiff extension and soft compression to a point.... IRS Im not totally sure but don't think your going to have to worry about the stiff extension. The reason you do on cars like my nova is as the power goes through the drive line and the tires stay hooked it tries to lift the front of the ladder bar as it does this it tries to lift the rear of the car where it is hooked. Tight expansions keeps that from happening and transfers that energy to the chassis and tries to lift the front........ So my guess is soft compression on the rear soft extension on the front lots of free movement on the front....... Still doing this from my phone........... Lets look at your front suspension more
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OJDAJUICEMAN
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 9:27 pm

the spring rates in the rear aren't helping. bushing are more to address wheel hop/flex in the suspension. softer the better for springs. and sometimes you can reach a point in tire width thats too much. when it gets too wide and starts spreading the weight around too much. but a good set of et streets should do wonders for you. mustang guys in class racing have hit low 7's in the 1/4 with a 275 et street.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeThu May 05, 2011 9:31 pm

On the right wheel I think I could fit a 285 back there.

I am going to investigate going back to a standard spring/shock combo. Sounds like my suspension is just too stiff.
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeFri May 06, 2011 1:43 am

Well I dont know shit about IRS so i could be wrong but...........


You want your front end loose, so disconnect your front sway bar. Also you would be best to get a front shock rate of 90/10, basically you want the front end to come up and stay up to hold the weight transfer while you accelerate.

You would also at the same time want the rear suspension stiff, a 50/50 shock rate would be best. Whatever you do leave the rear swaybar on (thicker the better). The idea is the momentum from the weight transfer would go into the tires more than getting absorbed by the rear suspension.

Tires wise the wider and taller the better, I am assuming you car is a stick so a soft side wall would be best. But if you are only running radials I would just air them down low 15> psi or so.
This should help with the shock of popping the clutch.

You also want a neg pinion angle but would have no idea how to do that on your car, also I have no idea on how to set up the rear control arms.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers   Does your car hook up? Could use some pointers Icon_minitimeFri May 06, 2011 8:05 am

Well, that's good info because stiffening up the rear won't be too hard. I can adjust the dampening of the front shocks so I am going to soften them up. I will also disconnect the front bar if I am going out to cause trouble. That is easy stuff to try first.

My MT's are taller than my 17" tires are. I don't remember which sidewall aspect but they are 255 wide.
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