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 I'm about to give up. I need help.

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XSFTLBS
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 3:02 pm

$105 for a distributor:

$5.95 for a new hold down bolt socket:

$10.00 for some more gas:




NO CHANGE IN HOW THE CAR RUNS?



FUCKING FAIL.



No idea what to do now. Mabey its time to give up.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 3:51 pm

Blackout wrote:


FUCKING FAIL.



No idea what to do now. Mabey its time to give up.

Did you score the Motorcraft like you said you wanted?
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:01 pm

MikeyT wrote:
MSD here we come!!!

Mike

Blackout wrote:
LOL Thanks for the extra set of eyes man!

I'm going to try to find a motorcraft unit.

Dude, if you're building a performance car, wouldn't you want a HP ignition setup?


Blackout wrote:
$105 for a distributor:

$5.95 for a new hold down bolt socket:

$10.00 for some more gas:




NO CHANGE IN HOW THE CAR RUNS?

FUCKING FAIL.


No idea what to do now. Mabey its time to give up.

I'm really hoping you're not reffering to B.J.'s work here, by posting in caps and complaining when he helped your broke ass out and probably didn't charge you a dime. Did you buy a new distributor or a used one? Motorcraft or aftermarket reman?
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:11 pm

Zac I don't think that was what he was saying just the he is about fed up with the car......
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:16 pm

brngrhd wrote:
Zac I don't think that was what he was saying just the he is about fed up with the car......

I'd like to think not too. in order to help him though, we're going to need more info.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:17 pm

brngrhd wrote:
Zac I don't think that was what he was saying just the he is about fed up with the car......

+1

I'm pretty sure he is saying that he thought they located and solved the problem. Then when he replaced the parts and it didn't help he is saying FAIL to his motor being a stubborn bitch. I would say FAR from taking a dig at the help he got.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:21 pm

For the love of Christ, please take this car to a performance shop and have it worked on and fixed!!!!! No


My 2 cents Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:32 pm

Blackout wrote:
It started last year, when we did the turbo, manifolds, fuel system, intercooler.... We thought, "hey, lets look at what we just put on it " and all of it checks out. I thought that my issues were from a worn to hell cam last year..... and I was right that it was worn to hell, but now..... its gotta be something else.

If it started when this stuff was done I would be looking there. so you pulled the injectors out and had them flow tested? ohmed them out all that?

Blackout wrote:
LOL thanks man.


Okay here it goes.:


2.3L Turbo, 98K on the clock.

Modifications:

Gutted Upper intake
Knife Edged Lower
65mm Throttle Body
EGR Delete
Steeda AFPR
Ported E-6 manifold
T3-To4E .57trim compressor, .48 Turbine
Stainless braided large diameter feed and return lines (oil)
Semi-cold air intake
Modified Air flow Meter
Hallman Pro RX MBC set 10PSI
Cleaned and Flowed Stock Injector (36PPH)
Stinger FMIC kit
Walbro 255 HP pump

What we've checked so far:


Ignition Timing is set at stock 10* BTDC.
Vac/boost leaks - NONE found
Charging system - Normal operation with correct voltages
Fuel System: NEW walbro pump, Regulator checks out, Fuel pressure increases 1 for 1 with boost as it should. We've added and subtracted a bit of pressure here and there, with no changes. Return line is free from obstructions. Injectors were pulled and re-checked, no flow issues and spray pattern is identical. They also get the correct voltage they need to open and close.

Computer: Swapped computer with a known good unit out of a running car, no change. All grounds were checked and cleaned up. All signal return wires from engine sensors are reporting correctly, and the signals from all sensors are reporting correctly to the computer. I noticed that my alternator was charging a bit high, so i swapped that out today. We added/changed/eliminated the BOV with no change in how it runs. We swapped a known good distributor into the car with a known good ignition module on it. No changes in how it ran.

We noticed that if you put a timing light on the coil to dist cap wire, you can actually see the coil miss a pulse or two in time with the car's idle miss. I swapped a new coil into it, with a new coil wire, no change. I also tested the voltage at the + side of the coil, and it had steady battery voltage, no breaks. I did a shake test on every single set of wires i could get my mitts on, no perceptable changes in the way it runs. Compression checks out, and all 4 cyl are well within factory specs.


I found out that the cam timing MAY be off by about a tooth. I'm currently in the process of re-timing the cam, and I should have the result of that tommorow.


What the car is doing: At idle, it misses pretty good. if you free-rev the car, you can SOMETIMES get it to miss without a load on it. When you take it down the road, you can build about 5 or so PSI before it starts misfiring and bucking, causing you to get out of the throttle. If you press it down more when it is misfiring, it will sometimes clear up and stop the miss, but 9 times out of 10 it starts doing it worse. If you try to hold a steady speed on the highway (IE 55MPH on a flat road in 5th gear) it will start mis-firing, getting progressively worse until you have to get out of the throttle. It does this at any speed/rpm combo as long as you are trying to hold it steady. We also see a low vac reading at Idle.

ok if the signal comes from the distributor and goes to the pcm could be a wire from one to the other messed up..... can some one get a diagram of this thing. what power goes in where and comes out where and signals what....... i had a hard time thinking it was a distributor since he said he tried a known good unit. but a wire to or from it is possible
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:33 pm

Terminator wrote:
For the love of Christ, please take this car to a performance shop and have it worked on and fixed!!!!! No


My 2 cents Laughing

I think that could/would be the best thing to do at this point. It needs to see a dyno and someone well versed in boosted engines. Aside from that I don't think Blackout is pissed at me for how this went. I know the Dizzy was boderline at a minimum. I think Mikey mentioned MSD is another key factor. The factory setup might not be able to handle the chores. I ass-u-med a Motorcraft factory unit for a Turbo car would handle it fine.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:34 pm

lilwillie wrote:
Terminator wrote:
For the love of Christ, please take this car to a performance shop and have it worked on and fixed!!!!! No


My 2 cents Laughing

I think that could/would be the best thing to do at this point. It needs to see a dyno and someone well versed in boosted engines. Aside from that I don't think Blackout is pissed at me for how this went. I know the Dizzy was boderline at a minimum. I think Mikey mentioned MSD is another key factor. The factory setup might not be able to handle the chores. I ass-u-med a Motorcraft factory unit for a Turbo car would handle it fine.

at idle it is up to the task if he was making 30psi of boost then it may not be but.....
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:35 pm

brngrhd wrote:


ok if the signal comes from the distributor and goes to the pcm could be a wire from one to the other messed up..... can some one get a diagram of this thing. what power goes in where and comes out where and signals what....... i had a hard time thinking it was a distributor since he said he tried a known good unit. but a wire to or from it is possible

The signal going out of the dizzy to the ECU had a fine pattern, the signal in the dizzy is what was low.

I'm leaving that there because I said it ass backwards. The Hall effect signal was low,(PIP) its signal goes to the ECU and then it sends the Spout signal back.

Fords ignition leaves nothing to be desired when explaining. Here is a decent write up on it

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html


Last edited by lilwillie on Mon May 17, 2010 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:35 pm

how do you measure the signal IN the dizzy?
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:37 pm

brngrhd wrote:
how do you measure the signal IN the dizzy?

oscilloscope
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:39 pm

right but your not IN the dizzy your reading a signal that is coming out correct? or the signal that is going in? or what?
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:40 pm

lilwillie wrote:

I think that could/would be the best thing to do at this point. It needs to see a dyno and someone well versed in boosted engines. Aside from that I don't think Blackout is pissed at me for how this went. I know the Dizzy was boderline at a minimum. I think Mikey mentioned MSD is another key factor. The factory setup might not be able to handle the chores. I ass-u-med a Motorcraft factory unit for a Turbo car would handle it fine.

This too is my train of thought. Upgrade the ignition system, if you're building a performance car you're going to have to do it at some point, so he might as well do it now.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:44 pm

brngrhd wrote:
right but your not IN the dizzy your reading a signal that is coming out correct? or the signal that is going in? or what?

Both, look at the hall effect signal in the dizzy which is sent by PIP to the ECU and then that comes back as SPOUT.

The hall effect was low. The spout coming from the ECU had a fine waveform.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:47 pm

so you have like 4 wires or someting on this thing a power wire, a signal out, a signal in, and a ground? power is good ground it good signal out is bad but signal in is good?
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 5:54 pm

brngrhd wrote:
so you have like 4 wires or someting on this thing a power wire, a signal out, a signal in, and a ground? power is good ground it good signal out is bad but signal in is good?

signal is low, that means the SPout will still come back. The spout signal coming back just shows everything is in its proper location timing wise. If memory on the whole system isn't.

There is actually six wires on this module if memory serves.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 6:03 pm

yeah like i said i need a diagram on how this thing is set up and works..... blackout call me 206-1020
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 6:45 pm

well spooler87 I'm going to do some looking and see what i can find.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 7:16 pm

crazy thought here..... EGR valve can you unbolt it cut a pop can apart and use it to cover the port where the EGR vavle mounts.....
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 7:25 pm

never mind i see EGR deleted
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 7:27 pm

Sell it. Please.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 8:15 pm

overblown wrote:
Sell it. Please.

You just wanna buy it!
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PostSubject: Re: I'm about to give up. I need help.   Mon May 17, 2010 8:37 pm

Moparkid:


Most definitely NOT a dig at B.J. He helped me out a lot, and I couldn't thank him enough. I saw what the dist was reading just as he did, and he was right that it was marginal at best. I replaced it with a parts store reman, but it turns out that it was a motorcraft core, with an actual motorcraft PIP in it. the TFI module on the outside is a noname brand, but adequate. The Motorcraft Plugs Wires and Distributor assembly are working fine for people who are running a HELL of a lot more modifications than I am, with at least TWICE the boost i am running..... so the Stock stuff should be just fine. The FAIL portion was because the car is STILL NOT RUNNING RIGHT. It just figures. I am pissed at the car completely at this point. I walk out the door and look at it and I get angry. Rest assured I appreciate everyone on here who has given me advice and guidance with this. I'm not in the slightest bit pissed at B.J. or anyone else for that matter.

BTW, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a broke ass at this point, due to taking 2 weeks off of work for my son's open heart surgery. No Vacation. Not complaining, but it had to be done. Although, I wasn't exactly rich before that.......


The problem with taking it to a performance shop is that NOBODY knows these cars. They look at it and the first thing out of their mouths is that they never new that engine came in a thunderbird. Nate has helped out a bit too, but again, its an old car with a strange motor.
Plus, being a broke ass at the moment, I can't afford to pay a perfomance shop to start diagnosing the car from scratch, to probably end up with no answer just like I have now.

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