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mile_high51
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PostSubject: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:43 pm

with the recent acquisition of a few more ls1 guys, I figured I'd try this site before I head over to ls1tech. their just a bunch of prema donnas over there and their super salty about certain threads, and i didn't feel like dealing with it.

im getting some strong indicaitons that my fuel pump is going out, or at least my fuel pressure regulator. i dont have a fuel pressure gauge, anyone have one I can use? otherwise I have heard swinging through an autozone or oriellys and they will let you use one?

anyway my main question is, will running lean due to poor fuel delivery cause some major damage in the short term? im likely running lean already do to the header install with no tune, and I know long term not getting the proper fuel on the valves and such can be harmful, but I'm wondering with the fuel pressure dropping (and possibly failing) could I be in for a rude awakening here?

I understand fixing things when they are broke is always advised, but I'm starting to think I shouldn't be driving at all anymore? I would rather wait just a little longer to kill a few more birds with this stone kind of thing. I do ALL of my auto work in my stepdads shop about 2 hours north (unlmited tools and a lift Wink), so it takes a little bit for me to get certain things done due to school and work, but should I be considering getting a jack and some tools and doing this right in my underground parking lot stall as soon as possible here?

Any help would be appreciated. Also and suggestions on fuel pumps or possible other problems?

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:55 pm

What are your indications that the pump is going out? Is it hard to initially start after sitting for a while? Are you having detonation problems? If it is running hot or detonating during normal evreryday driving, I'd fix it or park it. If its only when you are driving aggressively, I'd just keep my foot out of it. Fuel pumps are not too big of a deal..... and since i'm not too familiar with LS engines i have no idea where to begin looking for the FPR.


I have a fuel pressure tester that you can borrow if you'd like. it hooks up to the Schraeder valve on the fuel rail. A couple of tests will tell you whats going on.


I can get it to you sometime this weekend if you'd like..... just let me know!

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:56 pm

I got one we can hook up and check her out.
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:09 pm

Arent LS1's Mass air? If so the headers shouldnt affect the A/F.
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:18 pm

Headers wont effect your af. Sounds like MAF? How do you know you're running lean btw?
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:21 pm

yup, you won't hear all detonation. it might be wise to take out a few spark plugs and see what they look like, if they are jet white that would be a good indicator.
Mike

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:40 pm

MikeyT wrote:
yup, you won't hear all detonation. it might be wise to take out a few spark plugs and see what they look like, if they are jet white that would be a good indicator.
Mike

but it is not a good indacator after the plugs have been run that long
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:46 pm

I always look for shiny specks on my plugs LOL


I NEVER want to see them though.

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:44 pm

Blackout wrote:
What are your indications that the pump is going out? Is it hard to initially start after sitting for a while? Are you having detonation problems? If it is running hot or detonating during normal evreryday driving, I'd fix it or park it. If its only when you are driving aggressively, I'd just keep my foot out of it. Fuel pumps are not too big of a deal..... and since i'm not too familiar with LS engines i have no idea where to begin looking for the FPR.


I have a fuel pressure tester that you can borrow if you'd like. it hooks up to the Schraeder valve on the fuel rail. A couple of tests will tell you whats going on.


I can get it to you sometime this weekend if you'd like..... just let me know!

slight detonating at idle. it NEVER (and i really mean never) starts on the first turnover unless sometimes if I prime the fuel pump twice. It will start on first turnover if it's at operating temp though. its really weird, I turn it over once and can hold it until the battery runs out and nothing, then the second i turn it over the second time, starts up like nothing was wrong. sometimes fishy with the fuel pressure, I was thinking maybe some type of "check valve" issue? I'm not that familiar with this cars fuel delivery setup, only from what I've read/heard.

Sure thing! I'm going to stop by tonight and see if autozone can borrow me one if not I'll elt you know.

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:46 pm

Terminator wrote:
Headers wont effect your af. Sounds like MAF? How do you know you're running lean btw?

I guess I don't actually know. I've just always heard that with a cat delete and headers it is common. and i figured if fuel pressure is starting to drop, I'd have to be? does the maf sensor pick up that much slack?

Plus Tye said so Razz

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:49 pm

brngrhd wrote:
MikeyT wrote:
yup, you won't hear all detonation. it might be wise to take out a few spark plugs and see what they look like, if they are jet white that would be a good indicator.
Mike

but it is not a good indicator after the plugs have been run that long

I checked three plugs about two weeks after I installed the headers, and they looked fine. This was before I started having rough idles and bogging acceleration though...

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:52 pm

slight detonating at idle I don't think that is possible to be honest not enough cylinder pressure..... Timing.... maybe but IDK if the timing can really be off on something like your car. are you sure it is detonating? sure it is not some "other" noise
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:05 pm

it sounds like the timings off yeah, but like you said I didn't think that was possible either with coils? the idle just isnt as smooth, it misfires every couple seconds or so. like a little "hiccup."

then when i get on it, very recently, it just doesn't feel right and it sounds off. im not sure if its detonating really, because also very recently (bout the same exact time actually) my exhaust started hitting my floorboard and I can't hear jack shit from inside the car.

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:20 pm

sounds like you need to step it up to a compression test..... If it don't feel right it aint right LOL I'm not sure on your back round of working on driveability stuff but this one sounds like you may want someone who knows a bit more to take a look at it. I'll try to help as much as i can PM me your number if you like
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:29 pm

brngrhd wrote:
sounds like you need to step it up to a compression test..... If it don't feel right it aint right LOL I'm not sure on your back round of working on driveability stuff but this one sounds like you may want someone who knows a bit more to take a look at it. I'll try to help as much as i can PM me your number if you like

yeah im def lacking in the mechanical department. dont get me wrong I can turn a wrench, but when it comes to problem diagnostics I'm as lost as the average guy. im cool to admit that. theres no pride in working on something because you think you can and then it ends up worse off, hence the op

im going to severely limit the driving and take a closer look this weekend in a real shop. i want to learn more first because right now, you are right, im purely speculating. then id be happy to chat and see what you think.

thanks

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:34 pm

You should swing by my place if you have some time i know i have a compression tester around here...

And i can't beleive you didn't change out your motor mounts when you did your headers... Evil or Very Mad

Oh yea and the fuel pressure tester they will have you'll just have to put a deposit down on it...

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:56 pm

If it is starting hard it would most likely be the fuel pump.

I would run a 255 Walbro for a pump with room to grow.
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:58 pm

mtperformance wrote:
If it is starting hard it would most likely be the fuel pump.

I would run a 255 Walbro for a pump with room to grow.

agreed

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:11 pm

U LK2LSE wrote:


And i can't beleive you didn't change out your motor mounts when you did your headers... Evil or Very Mad


i know Mad when the heads come its definite

ok, maybe ill swing through. when you around?

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:12 pm

mtperformance wrote:
If it is starting hard it would most likely be the fuel pump.

I would run a 255 Walbro for a pump with room to grow.

already in the works Wink even if it turns out the stocker was ok, ive been wanted one anyway

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:31 pm

mile_high51 wrote:
U LK2LSE wrote:


And i can't beleive you didn't change out your motor mounts when you did your headers... Evil or Very Mad


i know Mad when the heads come its definite

ok, maybe ill swing through. when you around?

I'm off work and hanging out at home til next wenesday Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:14 pm

alright, ill swing through one of these afternoons.

its my moms birthday today so im not sure about tonight, but def soon. your right on my way so if your not home no biggy, ill just get you later.

whats the house number? with your t/a in the garage id have no way of knowing.

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:23 pm

928 As your going down thompson u first go by houses then duplexes and then i'm the first 4 unit after the duplexs at the top of the hill.

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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:41 pm

headers will absoluetly affect A/F ratio even on a mass air car. its a bit hard to explain but its something like transient air. its air being run though the engine that is not being utelized due to a small amount of inefficiency. but when u add headers, it runs lean because its not using that transient air even though the mass air flow still sees the same amount of air. when i tuned a 04 gto once, after the headers, the wot a/f was up to about 14.5-15.0 to one when it should be 12.8 to one. the mass air works pretty well, but has its limitations.

oh and it your fuel pump takes a shit while your floored, that will be bad news in an expensive way.
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PostSubject: Re: fuel delivery question   Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:56 pm

vietnambob wrote:
headers will absoluetly affect A/F ratio even on a mass air car. its a bit hard to explain but its something like transient air. its air being run though the engine that is not being utelized due to a small amount of inefficiency. but when u add headers, it runs lean because its not using that transient air even though the mass air flow still sees the same amount of air. when i tuned a 04 gto once, after the headers, the wot a/f was up to about 14.5-15.0 to one when it should be 12.8 to one. the mass air works pretty well, but has its limitations.

oh and it your fuel pump takes a shit while your floored, that will be bad news in an expensive way.

i knew it did, but i had no response for the maf question. thanks or clearing that up. i suppose i should update.

i took a little time and cleaned my o2 sensors as well as my maf sensor. the rough idle has been corrected for the most part, cars actually been running awesome. i still have to prime my fuel pump 3-4 times before it starts however, so I'm still thinking its on its way out. Or at least the pressure regulator is???? still relatively new to the ls1 world

Either way, Ive been wanting a walbro or racetronix and this is the exact excuse i need. im "scheduled" for a street tune soon and im having extreme second thoughts about waiting until i get the fuel pump installed first, but that could be weeks.

i have three other cars I could drive and they are all borrowed out right now so my t/a is currently my absolute dd, aka only mode of transportation. this makes things tough for me, becasue i know everyone's response to this will be to park the bitch and get it fixed and tuned. this is not an option for me currently.


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