Few questions for any DSM guys out there.

4th Gear question-when I'm rolling at around 2-3k rpms in 4th and then at full acceleration my rpms go up to 3.5kish, then seems to die down to 3k then goes back up normally. Do you know what causes this? Like it climbs up to 3.5k from the 2kish starting point and then at 3.5k it seems to lose rpms and drop to like 3k before going back up normally inclining. I do not remember it doing this before I installed my manual boost controller and I turned up the boost controller slightly from stock, supposably at like 14. Which leads to my next question: Whenever full acceleration in 3rd it seems like it goes up to 14-18 then dies back down to like 12. Like it pops right up to 18 as I accelerate and then it slowly bleeds off to 12 and stays there until I release the throttle. Is this normal? It seems like what I set it to should be around 14psi of boost, but I am not sure if everything is working properly. I have pics of the BOV/Boost controller/Boost Gauge and videos of the acceleration question in 4th and the boost psi question I also have a video of the gauge. So if there were any DSM guys out there that could help me out since I'm new to all this I'd appreciate it! (I was thinking acceleration in 4th w/ rpms may have to deal with my clutch plate? sometimes the rpms go real high fast cause it slips in fourth but i dont know why the rpms would drop then start going back up like that? clutch is bad in my car though. As for the boost question, maybe a boost leak? or is it suppose to die down like that? it seems to die to 12 but i didnt wanna turn the boost up anymore since im new to this and wasn't sure if it was suppose to spike up psi and then die down. I really don't know. I've been googling possibilities but figured someone here would know. Thanks.

-Kevin!

Clutch sounds like its slipping. I would dial the boost back down to stock until you you have other mods to support it. Get on dsmtuners.com as that is a awesome site for information and it will most likely have all the answers you need.

kp116 wrote:

Clutch sounds like its slipping. I would dial the boost back down to stock until you you have other mods to support it. Get on dsmtuners.com as that is a awesome site for information and it will most likely have all the answers you need.

Figured that's the problem. Pretty sure it's the stock clutch in it, and nothing has ever been done to the transmission, I just got it a little while back so gotta learn some stuff.
Yeah I've been on DSMtuners, and there seems to be alot of helpful stuff on there. I've been looking into the upgrade paths and seeing what I needed to prepare to do.
Plan on dropping the transmission soon and replacing the clutch, master cylinder, maybe the flywheel if needed? And of course some parts of the transmission need to be looked at.

Yeah the clutch is definitely bad though because it does not stay in first if you are at a stop it will grind and kick it back into neutral so you have to be at a roll or pump the clutch a few times popping it into first till it stays.

I'll just take it easy and baby it to stay out of boost while driving for now. I just wasn't sure about the PSI bleeding off and the RPMs slightly dropping before picking up again.
I guess I will post some pics and videos in here for the hell of it though. Thanks for your input.

Yeah from what I've seen on googling and going to different forums it all seems to lead to my clutch. But why would my rpms decline then gradually start rising again when accelerating fully?
I thought if it was slipping it would just get really high rpms really fast. Which is what happens sometimes.

After your testing, don't you smell burning clutch?

nightrunner06 wrote:

After your testing, don't you smell burning clutch?

No I don't really but I try to limit the amount of times I tested it that way cause doesn't seem good for the flywheel? I dont know.. any constructive comments would be appreciated, but yeah no burning smell.

tTwinkiEt wrote:

Yeah from what I've seen on googling and going to different forums it all seems to lead to my clutch. But why would my rpms decline then gradually start rising again when accelerating fully?
I thought if it was slipping it would just get really high rpms really fast. Which is what happens sometimes.

Its slipping and then catching itself thats why the rpm's go up at first and then back down. If its completely in gear and its poping out of gear that might be something with the trans...

Okay that sounds right, and yeah it pops out of first if you are at a standstill and did not come to a rolling stop while in switching into first. Like if you back out of a parking spot and then try to go into first it repeatedly pops out, but not if for example you are in third and disengage the clutch as you shift into first as you roll to a stop. I was looking up a list of things I should be prepared for when I take out the tranny to put in some new parts. Haven't really come up with a list but concluded. New clutch needed, throwout bearing, some parts for transmission that may be worn out (unsure what those are). Because also there is a slight grind sometimes whenever shifting into reverse and the gears don't feel as smooth as they should when shifting. I'm sure it is an assortment of problems though. Basically just seems like it's an old car with stock parts that normal wear and tear will take it's toll on.

My only modifcations so far would be:

1g BOV w/ adapter flange
K&N Air Filter
Hallman manual boost controller
Boost Gauge (came with)

Looking to do MAINTENANCE:

Timing Belt
Clutch
Transmission
Struts

Then UPGRADES:

Fuel Pump+Rewire (thinking 190 walbro is enough for me and less hassle?)
T28 turbo (because direct bolt on? unless something else catches my attention before winter is over)
Larger Injectors (unsure of what is needed)
Replace rubber piping w/ hard piping
Better spark plug wires
Turboback exhaust 3in

Yep that's the gameplan.

Opinions?

It looks like you have a pretty good idea of what you want and the maintenence is a good idea, try to get an OEM timing belt, tensioner, pulleys, and water pump while your in there. Not sure what to say about the clutch or trans, depends on your budget.

I would go for a stock evo or vr4 pump over a Walboro 190 as they will be cheaper. You could go to a 255 but some people have idle problems with that pump and no way to regulate fuel pressure. That being said I would get an AFPR either way. As for the rewire, do it, but do not buy the rewire kit, you can piece it together very cheap with parts from any auto part store. Any injector in the 650cc range should be good for you on pump gas depending on your power goals.

The T28 is a direct bolt on but not really worth it in IMO. You would probably be better off getting an MHI 16g or even a 14b. This will require different oil/coolant feed and returns but many companies make kits to do the swap. I have heard good things about Punishment Racings FMIC kits for 2gs but there are many choices and a lot of people have done fine on Ebay set ups.

Good plug wires arent a need, but not a bad idea. Get a tubular o2 housing to help manage boost creep with the 3" exhaust.

With all those mods I would also highly reccomend a wideband AF gauge and some sort of tuning apparatus such as ECMlink or Jackal. Both work great, link is a little more pricey but Jackal a requires speed density set up. Both require an eprom ecu.

dsmtuners.com will be your best friend during all of this. There are dozens of great tech articles that will help out a lot! Make sure to read up on everything.

You should also consider going e85, its a little more involved and requires bigger injectors, but turbo cars seem to really like it.

bigbird94 wrote:

It looks like you have a pretty good idea of what you want and the maintenence is a good idea, try to get an OEM timing belt, tensioner, pulleys, and water pump while your in there. Not sure what to say about the clutch or trans, depends on your budget.

I would go for a stock evo or vr4 pump over a Walboro 190 as they will be cheaper. You could go to a 255 but some people have idle problems with that pump and no way to regulate fuel pressure. That being said I would get an AFPR either way. As for the rewire, do it, but do not buy the rewire kit, you can piece it together very cheap with parts from any auto part store. Any injector in the 650cc range should be good for you on pump gas depending on your power goals.

The T28 is a direct bolt on but not really worth it in IMO. You would probably be better off getting an MHI 16g or even a 14b. This will require different oil/coolant feed and returns but many companies make kits to do the swap. I have heard good things about Punishment Racings FMIC kits for 2gs but there are many choices and a lot of people have done fine on Ebay set ups.

Good plug wires arent a need, but not a bad idea. Get a tubular o2 housing to help manage boost creep with the 3" exhaust.

With all those mods I would also highly reccomend a wideband AF gauge and some sort of tuning apparatus such as ECMlink or Jackal. Both work great, link is a little more pricey but Jackal a requires speed density set up. Both require an eprom ecu.

dsmtuners.com will be your best friend during all of this. There are dozens of great tech articles that will help out a lot! Make sure to read up on everything.

I was gonna get a medium fuel pump to avoid having to get an AFPR but I might go the larger route, just weighing my options right now. Yeah heard bigger onjectors never hurt so always better to go a little big than too small. Same with spark plug wires I'll get some pretty good ones, I've seen the charts on DSMtuners that explains how spark plug wires work with ohms and stuff. Yeah I was going to start with a catback 3in that I found for a good price that got good reviews and do that as my next modification while i'm gathering stuff to do maintenance. And isn't an OEM belt just like one I could go down the street to Auto Zone and I think they sell the Mitsubishi ones? For the clutch I was thinking maybe the ACT 2100, but I really don't know I havent done my research. The car is my DD so I won't do anything too extreme just make it a little quick car since it is my first car I've ever done ANYTHING to EVER. lol.

Yeah I understand the importance of gauges and stuff in the car though, the most important things seem to be maintenance and then gauges and tools that tell you what your car is doing and how it is reacting, not like I will know how to read any of the gauges anyways for the most part.

Preparing for a bigger turbo was really my biggest concern, I know it isnt one of the first mods to do but I would like to prepare for it and since I already bought the BOV adapter flange for the 1g BOV to fit my stock UICP I was wondering if there are any setups that would allow me to keep using that BOV and also use a better turbo? I heard alot fo good things about the 16gs but seemed like you have to do alot of different stuff like I'm really not sure how any of that hooks up, basically unfamiliar with what is compatible with what. So trying to maintain using the adapter flange I purchased for 1g BOV that I acquired, so use that BOV in some setup so I don't have to get a different one. Also continuing using that stock exhaust manifold, was just thinking I would port that and port the 02 sensor housing if necessary. I wasn't sure what a different turbo would affect in my current setup. Was just trying to use my aftermarket parts I already have along with other parts, so nothing goes to waste really.

Thanks for all of your input, I use DSMtuners as a major source to learn what everything is. I think it was a month or so now ago I didn't know what a BOV was and I didn't have any idea what a turbo did in a car. LOL. time to play catch up.

I would honestly go with the 255 and AFPR right away and not have to upgrade again later. Look in the dsmtuners classifieds for good deals on used parts. I have saved a LOT of money this way.

The ACT 2100 should be fine for a regularly driven street car. Any ebay or Apexi 3" down pipe and catback will be fine.

Not all maintenence parts are created equally. Definatly go OEM. In addition to new gaskets everywhere I would buy this exact kit if I were doing a timing belt as it is complete ( except the water pump which I also highly reccomend OEM).
https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=22306&cat=0&page=1

Set aside extra money for tools! A good boost, WIDEBAND o2, and oil pressure are a must.

You have tons of options for good budget turbo set ups. Going to an MHI 16g or 14b is really the only way to go. All you need is an oil feed/drain, diff water lines, and a diff j pipe. Its not a tough swap. Any good FMIC kit will have a flange pipe for your 1g BOV. Your 2g exhaust mani will work great with any of these, I would just reccomend porting it as well your o2 to prevent boost creep(not an easy task, get a good carbide)

You must get a tuner, SAFC is the cheapest, but link or Jackal are best....

Im just wondering... How many miles are on the car/engine/clutch? Was the 60K or 120k (if applicable) maintenence done? Any proof of the work?

You should also check out vfaq.com's DSM site. It has a lot of walkthroughs with pictures and explanations. There really is no shortage of reading material when it comes to DSM repairs http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html

bigbird94 wrote:

Im just wondering... How many miles are on the car/engine/clutch? Was the 60K or 120k (if applicable) maintenence done? Any proof of the work?

You should also check out vfaq.com's DSM site. It has a lot of walkthroughs with pictures and explanations. There really is no shortage of reading material when it comes to DSM repairs http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html

Car has roughly 160k on it, so it is time for alot of maintenance. I'm not sure what was done and when it was done. I know either the master cylinder or the slave cylinder were replaced but i'll have to ask so I know. Other than that i'm thinking for the most part just general maintenance was done. I was thinking while it is all apart and I'm replacing some stuff with the transmission, that I might also need to replace the flywheel now, and while doing the timing belt take care of everything else whenever it is apart. But that isn't some 5minute job lol. But from what i've heard the engines tend to hold up through alot of miles, but eventually I willhav eto do some upgrading with the parts so it lasts longer, for now we will just see what happens with it since I just got into cars really lol

tTwinkiEt wrote:

bigbird94 wrote:

Im just wondering... How many miles are on the car/engine/clutch? Was the 60K or 120k (if applicable) maintenence done? Any proof of the work?

You should also check out vfaq.com's DSM site. It has a lot of walkthroughs with pictures and explanations. There really is no shortage of reading material when it comes to DSM repairs http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html

Car has roughly 160k on it, so it is time for alot of maintenance. I'm not sure what was done and when it was done. I know either the master cylinder or the slave cylinder were replaced but i'll have to ask so I know. Other than that i'm thinking for the most part just general maintenance was done. I was thinking while it is all apart and I'm replacing some stuff with the transmission, that I might also need to replace the flywheel now, and while doing the timing belt take care of everything else whenever it is apart. But that isn't some 5minute job lol. But from what i've heard the engines tend to hold up through alot of miles, but eventually I willhav eto do some upgrading with the parts so it lasts longer, for now we will just see what happens with it since I just got into cars really lol

Thats a lot of miles for a DSM and if maintenence wasnt done I would highly reccomend getting that out of the way. You will have to replace the flywheel. With that kind of mileage you might want to consider a new oil pump and BSE as well. These are tough engines and will take a lot of mileage/abuse IF they are maintained. The timing belt is not an easy job by any means but its reasonable for a person with the proper tools.

Figured I would go w/ a lighter flywheel when I drop the tranny and also do the timing belt, water pump, and then see what else I need to do. Maintenance always before modifications except the 3in catback im going to buy because right now i dont have a catback period.

First is maintenance especially if you don't know the history of the car. I will be in Madison tomorrow morning and could perhaps take a very quick look if you PM me your number. I won't have very long but could help you get in the right direction on the clutch and trans issue. A boost leak test should be done and any leaks addressed. I don't believe an oil pump is needed at all but the balance shaft belt shouldn't be forgotten about. I personally wouldn't attempt a BSE with the engine still in the car simply because it'd be a royal PITA.

I also agree that a standard t28 is a bit of a waste. The turbine is still super tiny(the same size as a t25 which is dwarfed by even a 14b) and can't hold boost for sh!t. The only real benefit is that it won't tend to boost creep which may be an issue with a 14b or 16g with a free-er flowing exhaust. It can be fixed with proper porting and some other tricks.

For a quick and cost effective setup, I would look around for a 16g(any variant) or even a 14b. The swap will consist of an oil feed line being different IIRC and the compressor outlet/piping leading to the intercooler will have to be made. A FMIC will usually require a change in IC piping in the first place. I hate to have you buy an adjustable fuel pressure regulator since they are freaking expensive. When you do install a fuel pump, drill out the plastic "saddle" in the sending unit. Read up on what size to drill it and try to find a pic/writeup so you know exactly what and where. You may not need an afpr if the stock one isn't being overrun. I have a gauge that can be hooked up to the stock fuel line once all is said and done to find out.

Jackal is a 1g only thing and link may honestly be easier overall for a novice than SAFC since 2g's don't show knock directly via datalogger which is a big help to know if you're doing something wrong. That is a little down the road though IMO.

So my list would be this:
Exhaust(from the turbo back, 2.5 or 3")
14b/16g
FMIC
Fuel pump for safety sake

keep the boost at about 15 psi or less and maybe find someone with a logger who can check your injector duty cycle.

Or on a smaller scale, simply exhaust and boost at 15 psi for the best bang for your buck.


Once you get into different injectors things start to get more pricey and require some more knowledge/experience since tuning comes into play.

I second peepers on the BSE being a trick with the engine in the car, especially with the oil leaking all over your face.

Totally forgot Jackal couldnt really be used with 2gs, oops.

So my 2003 battery finally wouldn't allow me to start my car on this cold morning.
Good thing Autozone@1mile away was opened on Labor Day!

Oh and for my boost not holding at a set level could it be my t25 turbo getting to the end of its life? Because I know it is suppose to be able to handle 15psi but couldn't the turbo be a factor in my boost spiking them dropping to 12psi?

Your problem holding boost could have a few culprits.. T25s are known to not hold boost well even new. If the turbo on your car is the original with 160k it sure won't help the problem. I'm guessing it is fine though because you said it never did this before the MBC, not having it hooked up right could be you problems source. It should be hooked up with a vac line to a boost source on the j-pipe and another line on to the wastegate. If you need help dsmtuners.com has a couple good write ups on proper MBC hookup.